John O'Nolan is the founder of Ghost, a publishing platform that's grown to $7.2M+ in revenue while tearing up the startup playbook.

John was once WordPress.org's VP of Design (a voluntary role) and his experience of the tensions between the open source project and Automattic's commercial interests led him to start Ghost.

Ghost is structured as a non-profit, John and his cofounder have no ownership stake and they did not take any external investment.

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In our conversation, we discuss:

• How Ghost found product-market fit.
• Why they chose a non-profit structure and what that enables
• The technical and business challenges of running an open source platform
• How they compete with VC-backed competitors without burning cash
• Much more

​Find the full episode here​

Some key takeaways:

• Don't assume you need VC funding to scale. Ghost proves you can build a significant business while maintaining complete control.
• Their non-profit structure allows them to prioritize user needs over investor returns, leading to deeper trust with developers.
• Start smaller than you think. Ghost began as a blog post testing market demand. This validation came before spending two years building the product. If the post had gotten only 10 views, they would have saved years of effort on something nobody cared about.
• Open source has technical and business implications. Ghost's decentralized architecture makes some things harder (managing 26,500+ databases, complex OAuth) but enables key differentiators (deeper customization, no lock-in) that customers value.
• How they focused on sustainable unit economics from day one. Without VC funding to subsidize growth, Ghost had to make their hosting platform profitable. This forced discipline around costs and pricing that's served them well.
• Build trust before scale. Ghost can't match VC-backed competitors' marketing spend, but their open-source approach and alignment with user interests creates strong word-of-mouth growth in developer communities.

Where to find John O'Nolan:

• ​John's Twitter
• ​Ghost​
• ​Early Ghost story on Indie Hackers​

In this episode, we cover:

• ​(00:00) Introduction and WordPress Drama
• ​(01:30) Ghost's Evolution and Growth Story
• ​(03:42) Marketing Open Source to Non-Developers
• ​(08:53) Ghost's Business Model and Hosting Strategy
• ​(16:10) The Non-Profit Structure and WordPress Conflicts
• ​(23:05) Advice for VC-Backed Open Source Projects
• ​(27:31) Competing with VC-Backed Platforms
• ​(33:17) The Future of Journalism and Ghost's Mission
• ​(37:59) Advice for Founders: Ship Early
• ​(40:06) Thoughts on AI Development Tools

References:

• ​WordPress drama background​
• ​Ben Thompson's Stratechery​
• ​Cursor (AI coding tool)​

Scaling DevTools is sponsored by WorkOS. If you're working with enterprise customers, they can help you cross the feature chasm and give you features out the box like SSO, audit logs and user provisioning/de-provisioning. ​
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